Pearls On, Gloves Off
Pearls on Gloves Off isn’t your typical legal podcast—and that’s exactly the point. This is where legal innovation gets real. We dive into what’s broken, what’s changing, and what it will take to reinvent how legal services are delivered from technology to talent to new business models. You’ll hear unfiltered conversations with the visionaries, challengers, and quiet disruptors who are shaping what’s next. If you’re tired of how things have always been done and ready to explore how they should be, you’re in the right place. Welcome to the conversation.
Recent Episodes
99
July 21, 2026
#99 - Who Is Sandstone? Inside Legal Tech's Most Talked-About Company
Mary sits down with Nick Fleisher, Co-Founder and CEO of Sandstone, to pull back the curtain on legal tech's fastest-rising company. They dig into why great software still matters in the age of AI, how Sandstone is solving the permissions and context problem that's plagued in-house legal for years, why law firms will never out-build tech companies, and how an AI-native team is redefining what it means to build lean. This episode is presented by Workday. Join Mary’s Substack Community Follow Ma
98
July 7, 2026
#98 - Anna Richards
Mary sits down with Anna Richards, Head of Community at Brightflag, to catch up on what's actually happening on the ground in legal ops right now. They dig into the shifting skill sets legal ops leaders need, how to think about building a tech stack from scratch, and why the job keeps getting harder even as expectations keep climbing. This episode is presented by Workday. Join Mary’s Substack Community Follow Mary on LinkedIn Rate and review on Apple Podcasts ~~~ Thank you to our sponsors for
97
June 23, 2026
#97 - The Senior Talent Problem Nobody Wants to Talk About
In today's episode, Mary sits down with James O'Dowd, CEO and founder of Patrick Morgan, to explore what legal can learn from the PE and AI disruption already reshaping accounting and consulting. James breaks down why governance is the real unlock private equity brings, how compensation models are shifting away from legacy profit-sharing, and why cultural buy-in ultimately determines whether any of it sticks. On AI, James unpacks the concept of "talent debt" and closes with a bold prediction: a
96
June 9, 2026
#96 - Curating AI Tools for a Global Law Firm
In today's episode, Mary sits down with Ilona Logvinova, Chief AI Officer at HSF Kramer, to talk about what it actually takes to turn a global law firm into an AI native organization. They cover why the Chief AI Officer title means something different from innovation, what it takes to build a forward deployed legal engineering function, and why the real edge isn't buying technology - it's the people and incentives behind it. This episode is presented by Workday ~~~ Thank you to our sponsors fo
95
May 26, 2026
#95 - Legal Will Lead The AI Revolution
In today's episode, Mary sits down with Aine Lyons, Senior Vice President & Deputy General Counsel and Chief Strategy Officer at Workday, to talk about what it actually takes to build a modern legal department. They cover why Aine deliberately designed Workday's function without a traditional legal ops silo, what it means to reskill every lawyer in the department, and why guardrails and governance matter just as much as the agents you're building on top of them. This episode is presented by Work
94
May 12, 2026
#94 - Who Needs Associates? Pierson Ferdinand’s Partner Only Model
In today's episode, Mary sits down with Michael Pierson and Joel Ferdinand, Co-Chairmen of Pierson Ferdinand, and Christina Wojcik, their Chief Innovation Officer. Together, they break down what it actually takes to build the law firm of the future and why buying AI tools without rethinking your structure, culture, and compensation model is the wrong place to start. This episode is presented by Workday ~~~ Thank you to our sponsors for making this show possible. Wordsmith.ai Brightflag ~~~ J